Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

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Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby TurboAAA » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:23 am

Hey all you cool OSDial people, I am REALLY new to Dialers so please bear with me.

In a nut shell I am looking at a multi-server install (Web, DB, Dialer, and Archive servers are separete machines). According to the manual I know installing in a VM is a bad idea and for obvious reasons. However, I believe that is only true of the dialers since they are the only component that would need proper timing. This leads me to think I should be able to install the DB, web, and archive servers in out existing OpenStack or Ovirt deployment.

Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby fadmin » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:04 pm

Yes, the OSDial Cluster is a custom design born out of need to scale without loss of functionality.
I'm told they are yet to see someone build a cluster right themselves as there are many different changes that are entailed in making it work reliably. People come back after six months of thinking it was working properly, only to say we should we should have gone with you in the first place, as they discover issues. The money you pay for clustering goes towards supporting OSDial and ensuring the company stays in business.

You can certainly try it as it is OpenSource. Just make sure you distribute changes without sending them to the company.

If you have good h/w and network conditions you could do it in what is loosely referred to as the Cloud. Really if all you are doing is building on a local network it will work fine. Going into VMs and geographically separated locations, you are asking for trouble. Also, remember that testing with a few agents is quite different than going into production with a lot of of seats.
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby TurboAAA » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:34 pm

I don't think I explained this correctly.

I wanted to know if the DB and web servers HAVE to be physical machines, or if ONLY the dialers need to be due to their timing needs. It seems to me that the DB/web servers would not have a problem in a VM environment. Right now I am only doing some leg work and researching, not deploying yet.
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby fadmin » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:15 pm

They have not written it in such a way as to try to make it require physical machines but historically it has not worked out too well when it's not. The company never recommend anything but dedicated h/w. However, Every year new h/w comes out so there's no practical way to know if or when it will work right without someone testing it. Same thing with SSDs. Not yet considered ready for prime dialer time.

That's the best answer I got.
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby TurboAAA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:21 am

So no one knows how OSDial works except the company? In my mind its a simple question, what components of OSDial HAVE to be physical? Surely someone on this forum knows how web and database servers work and can give their thoughts on the matter.

I have limited space for servers and would like to cut down on the number of physical boxes. So if I decide to work with OSDial and have the company setup fail-over options (as listed on their support site) I want to know that some of it can be placed in my existing cluster. The problem I am running into at the moment is lack of community support. There is almost nothing outside of the official site and the general community is very small.

This is not a personal attack on you or anything close, I am just frustrated and venting ;)
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby fadmin » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:38 pm

"So no one knows how OSDial works except the company? "
That certainly was not what I said, unless you are just making a comment. I can tell you a good number of people have reported how it's not a good idea. I can understand you being frustrated, most people have the opportunity to be so.

"The company never recommend anything but dedicated h/w."
Is however what I said. Asterisk becomes sensitive to lag, and when you push a large number of calls through per second it is essential that you don't have lag. The moment it's placed in a VM where lag is part of the bill you are likely to experience issues. Clouds have often not been too good either. They try never to make any recommendations which does not work reliably. When there are issues, as there have been with SSDs, nobody makes the recommendation to use that.

Let me know if something about the above is not clear, and I'll try to elaborate further.
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby TurboAAA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:23 pm

What component of OSDial suffers from lag and reduces call reliability/quality?
Is it
A. The Web Server
B. The Database Server
C. The Dialer
D. The Archive Server
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby fadmin » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:46 pm

All components require a timely response from each other. Asterisk is the most sensitive in receiving timely feedback. The archive is least dependent. Nobody here will suggest for you to build a production environment from anything but bare metal. You can however do anything for testing to discover what YOUR h/w is capable of, which will be relative to your load. Factors such as number of agents, dialing ratio, AMD, recording has the biggest impact on your h/w's performance.

I don't know who in their right mind will tell you to create some configuration and build to use in production where they would not be guessing given how much h/w differ under different types of loads. If you don't have space to ensure you are not shooting yourself in the foot then I suggest you don't do it until you can. Unless you have spare feet and time to spare that is.

You want to fit into a certain space, fair enough. My experience says to make things fit your needs not make you needs fit something else whenever possible. When not possible you are going to be cutting corners. Properly evaluate your factors before heading down a cut corner path.

And if it's really important use the commercial services available.
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby TurboAAA » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:27 pm

What I find interesting is your inability to answer a question based on personal experience. After asking the community for input to a simple question, you are the only one to respond with non-useful input. You do not give me examples and reasons why. but instead quote what is posted on the OSDial site. I am now concerned about the integrity of this forum and the OSDial community.

BTW, SSDs work great for DB and Web servers. Also they except the same SAS commands as any other drive which makes them transparent to the applications. Unless OSDial was made to rely on the slow random access performance of physical drives for some reason. Though I do not have any SSDs in production right now (that will change for some of our servers needing the performance) it would be good to know that OSDial will scale with the business.

Don't worry about replying, I am done. Thanks anyway
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Re: Multi-Server install, mixed VM and Physical

Postby fadmin » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:25 pm

I don't know what kind of hidden standard you are operating on that says I have to have any experience of any kind, or what makes it an outpoint that my experiences match what is on the website and how that is an outpoint?

You are most welcome to query the "integrity" of the forum, but don't expect me to try to justify it to you, or anyone else. Pretty much all replies are from volunteers, including my own.

There have been clients burning through SSD's after a year and it all worked again once they switched to SAS drives. No data on which SSDs however. The concern here of course is that once you go and promote a technology to people and it turns out it was a bad recommendation ... well, you contributed to the problem.
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